I want to briefly touch on something; last night I was watching a round table discussion that involved the issue of eschatology, and in particular, a discussion about the disparate views inherent to the question of millennialism (i.e. amil, premil, postmil). This discussion was made up of different Bible teachers who represented each view respectively (this discussion was moderated by John Piper). In the course of the discussion one of the teachers (the amil guy) asserted that American Christians shouldn’t even pretend like we know what Suffering is. He relativized our suffering by juxtaposing it with the suffering of Christians in Iran, China, Sudan, and other erstwhile places in the world where everyone knows that being a Christian there can offer untold types of suffering.
I clearly understand what this guy is trying to say, but he is way way overstated, and so are all of those (because I have heard this quite frequently from other American Christians I have had contact with over the years) who make this same kind of claim about American (or Western) Christians and suffering. In fact I would go so far to say that this claim is absolute non-sense! True, there are different types and identifiable differences of intensities of suffering that happen in people’s lives. But at the end of the day suffering is quite relative, and thus subjective. I know of many people in America, Christians, who have been endearing amazing amounts and depths of human suffering; indeed, my own family has known the depths of some pretty intense suffering over the last few years in particular (i.e. cancer, other health things, financial stresses, unemployment, depression, anxiety, etc. etc.). I simply want to place in the register here at the blog, that it is quite ridiculous and very insensitive to presume that American Christians do not really suffer! To me, all I can conclude, is that people who make such assertions haven’t really every suffered in meaningful ways; or maybe they have, and they are just insensitive to others and their own plights. Suffering can take on many different kinds of expressions, and be caused by various sources; but suffering is suffering by definition. How we measure its intensity from person to person can not ultimately be objectified or absolutized in the way that the claim that ‘American Christians shouldn’t even pretend like we know what Suffering is…” does.
2 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. Galatians 6:2
6 Humble yourselves, therefore, under God’s mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. 7 Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you.8 Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.9 Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that the family of believers throughout the world is undergoing the same kind of sufferings. I Peter 5:6-9
[see this post on a related theme]
Hi Bobby,
I can resonate with the perspective the person you mention, as well as you. My wife and I have a number of circumstances that in many ways mirror yours, except that we have no children involved – which I am sure is a crucial burden added to your illness and unemployment. We’ve been at this now for thirty years, and I know the Lord has used these things to build our trust and our sanctification in Christ.
I do, however, think there needs to be a distinction in cross-bearing and these things that afflict everyone – non-Christians included. Cross-bearing, the decision to stand in Christ in the face of violent persecution, even unto death, and still offering forgiveness to the “the enemy” that dishes it out, is something I will always admire (and seek to emulate in the Spirit) in those who do it. Stories of five year old children exhorting their parents to remain faithful even when they will become orphans as a result is just amazing. I think this might be what that person who made the statement you relate is getting at.
American Christians rarely have a “martyr,” except maybe in the eyes of those who give their children’s blood or they themselves die unlike Christ by giving their life for a transitory geo-politcal nation state. If that is all we’ve got, then I believe we are in trouble.
However, those circumstances that we find ourselves in also require a decision; either we make one based on the cirumstance, much as Job’s wife’s response to his indicates, or one that continues to trust – even if it is a fight to do so! – “even if he slay me yet will I trust in him.” This is probably indicated in in Jesus’ call to bearing a cross like his as well.
Mark
Hi Mark,
I appreciate the distinction you are making; there is indeed suffering directly related to the fact that we are Christians. But then again, precisely because we are Christians I think intensifies persecution as it takes many forms given direction by the devil would desire to destroy us. So I would generalize things in that way, in the sense that because we simply are Christians, and seeking to live righteously, we will be assaulted through whatever the media might be available to the world, flesh, and the devil.
I am presuming that when someone claims to be a Christian they are seeking to live Christianly in all they do (it is the mode of their whole life). And so I have a hard time making the distinction that you are, ultimately. Even though I understand what you’re getting at.
Bobby, my sentiments exactly. Many people think that just because we have iPhones and freeways, cable TV and a McDonald’s on every corner that we really don’t suffer. Absolute nonsense, as you say. Like your family, mine has endured intense suffering for an extended period of time. Suffering is suffering.
Suffering is universal for all, including Christians, even American ones! Jesus promised “In this world you will have trouble” in John 16:33, but, since we are IN CHRIST we are implicated and share in His victory over every trouble and suffering – “But take heart! I have overcome the world.” Suffering comes from many quarters, and is actually used by our loving Triune God’s to mature His children. When we see suffering from the point of view of God, it can be used to “prune” us, making us even more fruitful. Interestingly, I’m reading Elizabeth Elliot’s book “A Path Through Suffering” right now, in the chapter that discusses God pruning us:
“But oh, the pain of that pruning process! No matter how thoroughly we understand the necessity, it comes hard to human flesh and blood…There are paradoxes, of course, which we cannot plumb. Analogies break down. But we can always look at the experience of our lives in the light of the life of our Lord Jesus, who “learned obedience,” not by the things He enjoyed, but by the things He suffered. Was there suffering in His life? A great deal. Losses? All kinds. Was it HIS glory that was at stake? No, His single aim was to glorify His Father, and He did that, every moment of His life. The work He did was the work He saw His Father do. The words He spoke were the words His Father had given Him. The purpose of His coming was to fulfill the will of the Father. His death was because He loved the Father. There was no thought of Himself. He accepted suffering. He willingly laid down His life. He poured out His very soul unto death. Shall not we, His servants, tread the same pathway?”
Suffering is built into the fabric of this broken world – we WILL suffer, whether we live in the Congo or in America, whether it comes through overt or devious ways. One more quote from Elliot:
“To “abide in the Vine” is to live our lives in Christ, living each event – a mother’s wise refusal of a teenager’s desire, or a life’s work going up in flames – as Christ lived, in the peace of the Father’s will.”
Hi Bobby,
Maybe you can fill out a little bit for me the context in which the “amil guy” spoke his words. In my experience, especially when eschatology is being discussed, “amils” may express this sentiment in relation to “pre-trib dispensationalists” (where I came from) who in my experience, are glad they are getting out of here before the stuff really hits the fan. No sense of calling in witness during that extreme time; just escape. In that context his definition of suffering is nuanced towards the “types,” as you distinguish in your post. I wonder if he would disagree with you if you would ask him if he is thereby eliminating for American Christians “suffering” as a category of life. As I have not listened to the round table discussion, I had responded to you with these considerations in mind. Not for a moment would I minimize sufferings of all types. As I said earlier, they have been used by God in our lives. Patient endurance is sometimes all that one can do to carry on – hopefully faithfully in relating our confidence in an “unshakable Kingdom” to those around us. Paul can even call his sufferings due to persecution as “momentary, light afflictions” with the right perspective (II Cor. 4:17). And he folds everything into that great statement of confidence and hope expressed in Romans 8:28-29:
“For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor heavenly rulers, nor things that are present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in creation will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
Mark
@Steve,
Thank you, brother; I know you guys (as many of us) have been going through it too (in prolonged ways).
@Jerome,
Thank you, I really like those Elizabeth Elliott quotes! Right on!
@Mark,
The guy was Sam Storms (I would say not the best representative of the amil position!). He pretty much seemed to throw this out there (it wasn’t a major piece of what he was speaking about, per se) in the kind of naive and generalized way that I so often have heard it thrown out (i.e. which might give someone the idea in his listening audience that God doesn’t really care about whatever dire [to them] circumstances they are facing in their own lives). Like I said, he juxtaposed our suffering (or non) in the West (America) with many other parts of the world. I am not questioning the fact that many Christians in other parts of the world do suffer in immense and horrific ways; all I wanted to say with this post is that we actually do experience real suffering (as Christians) in the States, and that God actually does care. Storms tone exemplified the tone I have heard of others, and the tone comes across as if God cares more about the suffering in Iran (among Christians) than he does about those in America (which is gibberish!).
Does that help clarify?