Here T. F. explains and undoes the usual understanding of how events in history and causation relate one to the other. He defeats the idea of causation, appropriated by Classical Theists, in general; and Classical Calvinists & Arminians, in particular, that there is a necessary relation between the event that happened, and the events that led to the happening. He makes a disjunction between Factual event and Necessary event; the former being that
which we understand as an actual happen-stance of the past, and the latter having to do with the idea that because that happen-stance happened, that the events that led to its happening also were necessarily organised in a certain way in order for the the conditions of that event to be so — as if we, as historians (or scientists, theologians, etc), can absolutize causes based upon an idea of uniformitarian conception of Event. Obviously this is a little complicated, and not for the faint of heart, but I think it important to be grasped in order to understand what Evangelical Calvinists mean when we say that we eschew the logico-causal-determinism of ‘classic’ thought. Here’s T. F. Torrance (this whole discussion takes place in the context of TFT talking about resurrection):
(a) Interpreting ordinary historical events
(i) Freedom and necessity in historical events
Let us try to understand this from a merely natural point of view. Think of a historical happening: in taking place it appears as a free happening. Once it takes place, it cannot be undone. Throw a stone through that window and you are engaging in a free act, but once it has taken place, the act cannot be recalled — we cannot turn it backwards as we can a film of the event. Thus once an event has taken place, it becomes ‘necessary’ — in the sense that it cannot now be other than it is. At this point, however, we are liable to suffer from an illusion, for we tend to think that because it is now necessary fact, it had to happen. This is the kind of optical illusion we suffer from on the golf course when our opponent putts a ball from the other end of the green and it goes right down into the hole — immediately that happens we somehow think it had to happen from the start, but what we have done in a flash is to read the final result back all along the line of the ball’s course into the free act behind it. It is through this kind of illusion or indeed delusion that some historians think that historical events are to be interpreted in the same way in which they interpret the events of natural processes as concatenated or linked together through causal necessity.
The distinction between causal necessity and factual necessity
But it is important to distinguish in historical happening between causal necessity and factual necessity, between causal determination of events and the fact that once they happen they cannot be otherwise. An historical event, once it has taken place, is factually necessary for it cannot now be other than it is, but an historical event comes into being through a free happening, by means of spontaneous human agencies. Certainly all historical events are interactions between human agents and nature, as well as interactions between agents and other agents — so that there are elements of causal determination in historical happening that we have to take into account, physical factors relating to the kind of patterns of space and time in which we live and work. But historical events are not by any means merely natural physical processes, for as happenings initiated and bound up with purposeful agents they embody intention which often conflicts with and triumphs over the course of events that nature would take on its own.
(ii) History is the interweaving of natural processes with human intention
It is this interweaving of natural processes and human agencies, of nature and rational intention, that gives history its complicated patterns. The course of events has often quite unforeseen results, for human acts may fail to achieve what would have been expected or may achieve far more than would or could have been anticipated. But in our interpretation of history we must never forget that in the heart of historical events there is free happening which bears the intention in which the true significance of history is to be discerned. Thus while we must appreciate fully the physical factors involved, we must penetrate into the movement of time in the actual happening in order to understand the event in the light of the intentionality and spontaneity embedded in it. The handling of temporal relation has proved very difficult and elusive in the history of thought, for it has so often been assimilated to logical relation and so transposed into something very different. The confusion of temporal with logical connection corresponds here to that between spontaneity and causal determinism in natural science. We can see this error recurring, for example, in notions of predestination where the free prius of the divine grace is converted by the scholastic mind into logico-causal relation, while the kind of time-relation with which we operate between natural events is imported into the movements of divine love and activity. It is a form of the same mistake that people make in regard to the resurrection, when they think of its happening only within the logico-causal nexus with which they operate in classical physics. (Thomas F. Torrance, Atonement: The Person and Work of Christ, edited by Robert T. Walker (Downers Grove, Illinois: IVP Academic, 2009, 249-50)
In keeping with Torrance’s usual mode of thinking from the Incarnation & Atonement (here the resurrection being the focus), he seeks to excoriate any ideas of logico-causal determinism as the lens through which profane historians would attempt to interpret the ‘historicity’ and ‘facticity’ of the resurrection itself — Torrance’s discussion here, is all taking shape within his line of thought associated with Kata Physin (or according to the nature of the thing, or his more popular method Theological Science). As he deconstructs the post hoc ways of what might be called ‘natural theology’ (meaning all modes of intellectual inquiry which make inferences from supposed stable events, works, physical nature, etc. to their “necessary causes”), by implication, he also gets at theological constructs (like classic Calvinism-Arminianism, Neo-Orthodoxy like Brunner’s) that operate with this same modus operandi.
The moral: There are unseen, unknown contingencies built into the nature of things themselves that make it impossible to accurately infer a stable causal chain of events from the event back to the cause itself. The answer to this, in relation to knowledge of God, is to see the event and cause conjoined together in the person-act of Jesus himself. It is from this vantage point that we then are set up to know God, in Christ, but no longer as some sort of deterministic causal agent; but instead, as personal, triune Divine agent who apocalyptically breaks into the contingencies of history re-creating them towards their telos or created purpose in Christ (cf. Col. 1:13ff) — the resurrection, then, being the instantiation of this within time-space history.
I doubt this has cleared much up, but if nothing else it helped me to write this out for my own process. I also would surmise that it is because of the nuance of this kind of thought, evinced by TFT, that Evangelical Calvinism will continue to have problems with making headway with the typical American Christian. It is easy to understand causal-determinism, because that’s what “we see” in “nature” all the time (there is an “apparent” coordination between how things appear to the naked mind’s eye, and how we then assume things in themselves “must” be — so it is natural to operate with a docetic understanding of things — but this is not Christian, nor Evangelical Calvinism — it is the mode of Classical Calvinism & Arminianism [and I realize this is hard teaching, who can hear it?]).
*Classic repost
I can’t tell what nuance you’re trying to make. I understand the difference between a factual event and a necessary event being made here. But are you saying there is some other type of determinism beside causal? Also, it seems T.F. is saying there still is causal determinism — “there are elements of causal determination”, but that there is are aslo “purposeful agents they embody intention”. So, do humans excercise intention that changes the natural course of history? Are humans intentions determined in any way, or can they be called free?
And here’s where he loses me:
“The confusion of temporal with logical connection corresponds here to that between spontaneity and causal determinism in natural science. We can see this error recurring, for example, in notions of predestination where the free prius of the divine grace is converted by the scholastic mind into logico-causal relation, while the kind of time-relation with which we operate between natural events is imported into the movements of divine love and activity.”
This seems to be the conclusion, but what’s the point? God is not a deterministic causal agent, but a free agent, who changes history.
“The answer to this, in relation to knowledge of God, is to see the event and cause conjoined together in the person-act of Jesus himself.” What does that mean?
Real quick:
I’ll just say epistemological inversion, tacit knowledge, kata physin, and theological science; these are all the categories I will unpack to explain what TF is getting at. Plus I’ve already explained, somewhat, what he is after in the body of the post. I think, though, Nathan, that you probably need a lot more exposure to both Barth and TFT to understand the broader hermeneutical and dogmatic categories through which they speak. I see you trying to interpret them through classic categories that will always lead to confusion. I’ll be back.
“I also would surmise that it is because of the nuance of this kind of thought, evinced by TFT, that Evangelical Calvinism will continue to have problems with making headway with the typical American Christian.”
Well no wonder. Bobby I’m obviously not an expert on this subject, but I do have some exposure to Barth and other Neo-Orthodox theologians and don’t feel I have much difficulty understanding them. I also have a Masters degree in biblical studies and if I can’t understand what TFT is trying to say, or your explaination, maybe you might want to explain things in a less technical and insular way if you ever hope to have Evangelical Calvinism make some headway. It’s a pretty weak response to tell me I need to study more before I can hope to understand the concepts your trying to explain.
Nathan you wrote: ” … but I do have some exposure to Barth and other Neo-Orthodox theologians and don’t feel I have much difficulty understanding them.”
This makes you a rare breed then 😉 ; I think even Barth scholars would say that they have struggled in understanding Barth even after years of exposure 🙂 . But I am not comfortable in identifying Barth or TFT as neo-Orthodox theologians (i.e. given their disdain for Natural Theology … Emil Brunner & co. fit that bill much better IMO).
Evangelical Calvinism is not necessarily tied down to TFT, but my ‘kind’ of EC is largely shaped by him. Many of the authors of our book are not Torrancean. Some are more Barthian, and some are more Calvinian, and others are more of a mixture. My focal point, at the moment, is certainly TFT’s voice.
You wrote: “It’s a pretty weak response to tell me I need to study more before I can hope to understand the concepts your trying to explain.”
I didn’t mean that as a slam, Nathan. I had little time when I made this comment to you, and so it was terse; sorry about how that came across! But at the end, I don’t understand why that is a weak response; I essentially had others tell me the same thing (probably about 5 yrs ago now), and so that motivated me to study TFT and Barth at deeper levels; and now I’m glad that I did. Why would you say that is weak? I know that you are highly intelligent, Nathan; that is only too obvious to me 🙂 … so please don’t take what I’ve said to imply anything different. But my terse response to you what somewhat in reply to your terse skepticism about what TFT wrote. I will come back later and try to unpack that further.
For further clarification, for me, so I know what to respond to; what is it about what I wrote here: There are unseen, unknown contingencies built into the nature of things themselves that make it impossible to accurately infer a stable causal chain of events from the event back to the cause itself. The answer to this, in relation to knowledge of God, is to see the event and cause conjoined together in the person-act of Jesus himself. It is from this vantage point that we then are set up to know God, in Christ, but no longer as some sort of deterministic causal agent; but instead, as personal, triune Divine agent who apocalyptically breaks into the contingencies of history re-creating them towards their telos or created purpose in Christ (cf. Col. 1:13ff) — the resurrection, then, being the instantiation of this within time-space history. That you find confusing or unclear (other than that it is quite deep to contemplate)?
First I do not mean to imply I understand everything Barth says.
Second I do not object to your encouragement that I read more Barth and TFT. I’ve been meaning to study more Barth and many other 20th cent. theologians for a long time. To be honest I’d never heard of TFT.
I certainly can learn more. I was simply asking you to unpack a few of the statements in this post. I was not intending to convey a skepticism about what TFT wrote, I just don’t know if I’m actually getting his point. I understand what he’s saying about causal determination, but is he saying there is another type of determination?
As far as your statement goes, I just wanted you to unpack what it means “to see the event and cause conjoined together in the person-act of Jesus himself”.
@Nathan,
I’ll try to get back to this one later; you left a quite longer response on the other thread that I am heading over to right now.
My only point, which follows from TFT’s (TFT, btw was one Barth’s best students) is that the way God interacts with salvation history is apocalyptically, and thus he is not determined to act or be any other way that he freely self-determines to act and be for us from his own antecedent being and persons as God. So this does not follow the classic Stoic (or Newtonian) idea of God working in logical-causal deterministic mode. There is more to say on this too; in fact I have a quote from Barth on this that might be enlightening … but that will have to wait for awhile.
I find this to be one of the more unique and radical theological ideas I’ve come across in a long time – this is the kind of thing I like. I see this view having some pretty interesting/heavy implications in a lot of different areas in philosophy and cosmology – I’m wondering if we don’t need to re-think a lot of things like this in light of the Atonement.
WF,
Yes, this is a loaded conceptual matter that TFT gives us. I think the answer to your question is a definite YES; and TFT has already done all kinds of work in “re-thinking” things in light of the Incarnation & Atonement.