Mark Driscoll is a flamboyant youngish pastor in the Seattle, Washington area; just up the road from us. He is what is known as a “Reformed Charismatic,” meaning that he holds to the 5 points of Calvinism, soteriologically; and that he also is what is called a Continuationist (in contrast to a Cessationist) — meaning that he believes in the “Sign Gifts” (like tongues, visions, prophecy [new revelation in a particular sense] etc.). I was just alerted to a sermon he gave at his church in 2008 entitled Christus Victor. Apparently the context for the sermon has to do with “Spiritual Warfare,” and in the clip, provided below, he is recounting his “gift” of spiritual discernment. He describes this gift as one that allows him to See Things that have happened to people in their personal lives; destructive things, immoral things, criminal things — sad things. The things he recounts in this clip are not for the faint of heart; so if you have a faint heart, don’t watch. Here’s the video:
I’d like to know what you think about this. Do you think that what Driscoll describes is in fact descriptive of what the Bible considers the gift of discernment? I can think of at least one instance, involving Elijah (as I recall), wherein he has a similar thing happen to him (similar to Driscoll’s account). As I type, I also recall another instance involving Ezekiel (I think in chapter 8 or so), wherein Yahweh provides a vision for Ezekiel where he sees all kinds of gross sexual immorality and idolatry involving the Priests of Israel. Anyway, I say this to note that what Driscoll is saying is not without biblical precedent; I just wonder if you think that this precedent is continuous into the present life of the Christian church, and in the way that Driscoll describes it for himself? Let me know . . .
Bobby,
I wouldn’t call this the gift of discernment; it more likely falls under the category of prophecy. The gift of discerning or distinguishing of spirits is most likely a companion gift to prophecy in the ability to confirm it’s validy.
I know some might call what Driscoll’s experience a word of knowledge, but what is commonly called a word of knowledge is more akin to prophecy.
Hi Ian,
Yes, since there is no definitive rubric for such things; the subjectivity quotient is quite high on the semantics of such things. I mean, Paul doesn’t exactly describe what each of these are, in practice, for the church; he only says if done in order they edify. Driscoll usually doesn’t edify me 😉 .
I did not find this video edifying either. However, what Mark is describing is something that is known and experienced in many charismatic circles. Many charismatic counselors will receive visions or pictures in their minds about things that happened to a person. This helps them to go to root issues that they can repent of, pray forgiveness toward others, or whatever the case may be. Most charismatics would call this a word of knowledge.
What I find disturbing is Mark sharing this in such a public forum. The counselors I know would be appalled at him sharing such lurid details in such a public forum to where the individuals could be identified if you knew something about them.
John Wimber told a famous story about traveling on an airplane and seeing the word adultery written across a man’s forehead. He knew he had to say something to him and so he went over and asked him about it. Of course, the man denied any such thing. Then Wimber saw the woman’s name written across the man’s forehead, and that pretty much ended the denials. They had a private conversation, and the man ended up confessing his sin, repenting and renewing his commitment to the Lord.
I saw this video over at Pyro and read over 100 comments there and was really saddened by the outlandish and unfounded attacks on Mark’s character. Plus the wholesale ignorance of spiritual gifts represented by so many of the commenters revealed how deficient the experience of the Spirit is in so many Christian lives. The doctrine of cessationism has unfortunately hindered many people’s ability to understand the work of the Holy Spirit in all of his many manifestations in the body of Christ. I think the apostle Paul would be grieved over the lack of understanding and experience and freedom in the Holy Spirit today. He would also be grieved by the doctrinal errors, and ungodly practices of many in the charismatic movement as well. The church is in a mess! Lord have mercy!
Jon,
I don’t like the way they “fried” Driscoll over at Pyros. Although, I do think there is plenty of things to critique Mark over; namely his 5 point Calvinism.
I am a qualified continuationist. I have problems, theologically with Azusa style charismaticism/pentecostalism; but, I do believe God works mightily still today. I just don’t think the categories that charismatics have used to convey that adequately capture that work of God.
What kind of denomination are you associated with?
Bobby, I share many concerns with the current state of affairs in charismatic/Pentecostal circles. Most of my experience has been with Assembly of God, independent charismatic and Vineyard churches. I am currently looking for a good church that is doctrinally solid, charismatically free, yet not subject to extremism and chasing after signs. 😉 It is like finding a needle in a haystack! ;0
As you know Piper is based here in Minneapolis, but I would never be comfortable in his church. I went one Sunday to a Sovereign Grace Ministries church, which was started by people who had been with Piper. I was curious, but it’s too far to drive every Sunday anyway and I did not find it appealing overall. I’m going to keep looking. We will see how the Lord leads.
There are no perfect churches and if I join one it will still remain imperfect…
Jon,
Thanks for sharing. We attend a Calvary Chapel, as you know Vineyard, through Wimber’s break with CC, found its genesis.
I will be praying that you find a good solid church. Indeed, I certainly don’t add any perfection to our local body either 😉 .
Listened to the short presentation of Driscol. I have nothing to say about his Church or Theology. I have only a short comment on the phenomenon described. I have witnessed to that kind of knowedge of hidden things. Friends have related their experience. They were dumbfounded to hear their past exposed to them by some counsellors endowed with special gifts. We can not deny facts. The explanation may differ. Some may think it is the Holy Spirit;others may attribute it to clairvoyance or so. Whatever be the explanation some charismatic persons see some past events and names written large.
He should not have shared these things.I realize that this is a clip and not fully reoresentative. But who is it edifying? It sounds more like an over-active imagination to me.
Hi John,
This is a very old post. But I think you’re probably right.
If it is from God it should be 100%. Anything less is not from God.