I am still working on my responses to my friend on 5 point Calvinism. I have been talking with him by phone quite a lot lately, and about this very issue; so the urgency for me to pump out posts here is somewhat mitigated. I will, at some point, finish my responses to the actual passages of scripture he brought up to me via email; but that might not be for another month, or it may be by tomorrow. Having said that, let me just blog for a minute, and share just some of my personal reflection on why I never have or ever will be a 5 point Calvinist.
1). The first reason why I am not a 5 point Calvinist is because I can not justify it from my Bible study. I know some people say, rhet0rically, that they became 5 point Calvinists by simply reading their Bibles, and through personal Bible study. I find that highly unlikely, and at worst, arrogant! 5 point Calvinism took some time, by some great theological minds, to construct. It is not a “natural system” of thought per Scripture’s constraints; instead it requires, at least, a commitment to a particular idea of metaphysical causation. All one has to do is become quickly familiar with Reformation history, and you will quickly realize where these metaphysics come from. That in and of itself is not damning; the damning thing is, to me, is that these metaphysics do not do the best job explaining the categories of Scripture. They just don’t! They don’t offer a correlative grammar through which Scripture’s triune God, who is defined by his relationship in himself, is able to flourish. Furthermore, these metaphysics–the kind that 5 point Calvinism presupposes upon–don’t naturally allow us to speak about a God of love, nor do they allow us to believe that this God of love could save everyone–given the “Law-based” Covenant of Works (and the decrees that make that work) that God is supposedly constrained by–and this clearly is not scriptural! The first condition, in my mind, for something to be scriptural, is that God is love, and as a result, he is free to save and die for the whole world; and in fact, according to Scripture, he has (cf. II Cor. 5.14; Col. 1:15ff; etc. etc.)! These are some of the primary premises I have lived with, and that have been inculcated into my psyche ever since I have been a small boy; these premises have not changed for me!
2). The second reason why I am not a 5 point Calvinist is because of the damage that I have seen it do to those who hold to this system. Now I know that this is an emotional argument, but I don’t care! I know that people who are 5 point Calvinists who I have said this to before believe that I am overstating and mis-characterizing their position, because they are 5 point Calvinists, and this hasn’t been their experience; and all I can say is, I am sorry, look at the Puritans!! I have seen people who are introspective types, internalize the teachings of 5 point Calvinism, and almost go crazy; because they don’t “feel” that they have enough good works in a day to know if indeed they are one of the elect. I have seen these people struggle with the issue of assurance of salvation to no end, because according to their 5 point Calvinism, they must meet some sort of subjective nebulous threshold of good works in order to know that they indeed are one of the elect for whom Christ has died. Anyway, this is another reason why I cannot be a 5 point Calvinist; it doesn’t pass the livability test.
3.) The third, and my last reason that I’ll share (I have plenty of other reasons), is that I am not a 5 point Calvinist because there are better more fruitful ways of doing and thinking theology than 5 point Calvinism allows for. The history of interpretation, in the Christian Church, is littered with ways of thinking about our Lord, and his salvation, that far out-strip the grammar that 5 point Calvinism purports to provide. I’m not going to give any examples here, but this is a genuine reason why I am not a 5 point Calvinist. I simply believe that it is not true, that it places scripture and God’s self-Revelation on mute, and that it ultimately robs me from enjoying God the way he would have me enjoy him (e.g. worship Him)!
There are three reasons why I am not a Calvinist. Not all that in-depth, but what do you expect at a blog π !? If you are a 5 point Calvinist, I should hope that you will quickly repent π , and remember that Jesus loves you and your neighbor all the same!
Bobby,
Funny but I have never been a card carrying 5 point Calvinist, but I guess I am just a stone’s throw away however? But I find it interesting that Anglicanism has always been really “Calvinist”, as the Irish Articles 1615. And the whole Church for Anglicans has always been both “catholic” and “reformed”. And so your arguments about “causation”, etc. fall down for both the Catholic and the Reformed, etc. Indeed the Reformation came from Catholic ground! And the Catholic Church (as the Orthodox btw) have always been Trinitarian.
Really? All the same?
You haven’t met my neighbor Jacob.
:- ]
W
Hey Bobby
What you said reminds me of something that I heard the other day for the first time. He said, if all a person had was the bible…. and he read it… and believed its message… that person could never become a Mormon or a Jehova Witness. I thought that was pretty good. I also dont thing he could become a 5-pointer, either. Thanks
Will
Hey Bobby! π I really enjoyed this post! The first reason that you listed really resonates within me! Through my reading and study of the Scripture as a young Christian I never even came close to what TULIP purports! It wasn’t until someone introduced to me to TULIP that I had ever heard of it! I have a couple of acquaintances who are Calvinists and they both used the same subtle arguments to try and bait me! I also had friends who flirted with the TULIP but never quite gave themselves over to it. They also used the same crafty arguments! π The famous line that I have heard more than a few times when TULIPers are trying to convert other Christians to their theology is, “Have you read Romans 9?” LoL…:-P I digress….I am super glad to see that you are still blogging! I look forward to the book! Grace and peace be multiplied to you from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ! ~Chris~
Fr Robert,
I don’t think so. Causation, usage of Aristotle is just as true, if not truer, for Romand Catholics and Anglicans than it is for anyone else; don’t really know what you’re talking about with that.
@Willie,
Yes, interesting. I have heard quite a few Calvinists says that all they did was read their Bibles and that’s how they became a 5 point Calvinist.
@Chris,
Great to hear from you! Yep, still here. I’m glad this resonates with you. I am also glad to see how dixerning you are π ! Stay hungry my brother!
Bobby: Yes, my point was it is used in a positive and historical way with Catholics and Anglicans. As St. Paul was a Jew and Roman who was influenced by Greek Hellenism, (Acts 21:39 ; 22:3). There can be little doubt that God used Saul/Paul in a sovereign and providenial way, in his calling (Gal.1:15, etc. Note again, Gal. 4:1-4, especially verse 4.) Some of the 20th century Roman Catholic historical writers, did good work on the history of St. Paul, that Hellenised Jew, in the Greco-Roman world. See the English Catholic Robert Sencourt’s book: Saint Paul, Envoy Of Grace. (Though OP for sure!) Though ya know I have my copy! Even a first ed! π
Remember Bobby, one cannot do theology..without the historical! This is why I like Richard Muller so much, he is a historical Christian theological scholar for sure! And it is here that both Barth and Torrance do not shine, in my opinion. They are both bent toward a subjective and existential approach in theology..not bad of course, but certainly not toward the historical first. (Note, however, that I have a great respect and like of Torrance’s: The Trinitarian Faith, simply his best book in my opinion again.) I must confess that I don’t like Torrance’s scientific theology so much, certainly brillant.. but I am not so sure as to its biblical faithfulness. Just again how I feel. π
Btw, as to “Calvinism”, Calvin at least built his whole theology on one biblical premise, and that was the Sovereignty of God! And of course the TULIP is a later theological construct. But, it can be seen best with its first and last T and P. With the ‘Doctrines of Grace’ filling in the middle. How’s that Bobby? π Ya know I am an open ended Anglican Calvinist…I hope a Calvin’s Calvinist! π
Fr Robert,
I think we’ve covered this ground before. π Thanks.
Bobby, yeah I am right, and your..well working on it! π I am kidding as ya know! We all have our positions. Btw, I am praying for your situation, jobs..etc. I have my trials for sure! Maybe not money, but God always gets us where HE wants us! But the whole world economy awaits the Antichrist, or it will sometime in the future! I pray for my son’s here!
Fr Robert,
I can’t until money is out of the picture; I think that day is coming very soon! It is good to know that the Lord is not bound by particular economies or geo-politics; in fact He’s Lord of lords and King of kings. Looking forward to when we walk by sight not faith!