My whole life has been in the halls of Evangelical Christianity; in fact it still is. What I have come to realize, in general, is that if your predisposition is to “think”—which might express itself by being a theologian—that there really isn’t much place for this kind of person in Evangelical Christianity.
Take myself, for example. I have formally studied theology and biblical studies; I have experience in various ministerial and teaching roles; and I love Christ’s Church and his people with a genuine passion. Yet, where this has taken me is nowhere; and I mean within the Evangelical Church. I think one of the problems is that I am a thinker; my tendency (or curse) is to think rather deeply (just how I am wired; can’t help it!). Within Evangelicalism, since it is typically defined by what I like to call—“Me and My Jesus Spirituality, Me and My Bible Quiet Times”—people who like to think and use “big theological words” aren’t usually given space to exercise their gifts in the church. Instead they are pushed out to be faculty (or something) at Bible Colleges or Seminaries (occasionally they will be asked to speak or teach a Sunday School class, if they are lucky). Here they can talk and think in sophisticated/deep ways, and that way the Church at large doesn’t have to deal with them. This works fine for a certain few, but unfortunately there are many many other people who sit in the pews of many Evangelical churches who have been placed on mute. And sense they think deep they are not really allowed to participate in the church that continues to be shaped by the kind of spirituality I mentioned above.
Or maybe us types just end up blogging. 😉
A pure and simple, rant!
PS. It used to bother me that theologians seemed to only talk amongst themselves; but I have come to realize why, in many instances, that this is the case — nobody in the church at large, wants to listen!
Or writing books 🙂
Hey Sister Stace,
You should start a blog called “Sister Stace,” it has a nice ring to it! 😉 Yeah, I forgot that one; or writing books 🙂 .
Brother Bob 😉 .
I feel your pain, Bobby. I, too, am a deep thinker, etc., and have felt the same difficulties. Where I think an additional problem lies is in that most in the church believe that all the necessary thinking has already been done, especially in Reformed circles. What could we possibly think about that hasn’t already been covered by Calvin, Luther, Pink, Edwards, Piper, MacArthur and Driscoll?
Hey Steve,
Great to hear from you! Your point is definitely taken. And yet, my point is even more pointed than that. I am simply referring to the fact, the reality that there ARE, right now, multiple people who think in the church, and deeply to boot. I would imagine they have been put together this way in order to serve the church in a particular way. But there is simply no room, in general, for such folks. They are discounted in many ways. There is an anti-intellectualism afoot. The Reformed church is a whole other enchilada; and one I didn’t have in mind, really, as I wrote this 🙂 . Glad you’re still around, Steve!
This is a sad reality that I have also lived within. Don’t completely despair, though – contrary to my prior belief, all evangelicalism does not share an equal aversion to us. In fact, I think that there appears to be a groundswell of appreciation for thinkers within the church as many evangelicals under 35 seem to be actively asking questions.
My immediate solution? Come to the northeast! (I’m only halfway joking). I’ve found a healthy group of evangelical thinkers out here coupled with a “place” for us in the church.
Brian,
Thanks for sharing, your experience helps confirm my own experience as I’ve walked the barren wilderness of Evangelical land (in regards to this question 😉 ).
I always wonder what so many Christians, now, think we will be doing “then” in eternity? Meaning, do Christians think that in heaven we will be so caught up in the daily rigors of life; or so ensconced in whatever our personal situations are; that thinking theologically and deeply will only be reserved for the “theologian section” in heaven? The oft assertion I’ve heard folk make that thinking deeply (which is relative) isn’t the way they were put together or designed, and thus best suited for those who were; is one of the greatest cop-outs I have encountered amongst my fellow Evangelical brethren (I generalize).
As far as the northeast; we have been considering application to Princeton Theological Seminary, but this would be quite an upheaval for us as a family (logistically, financially, etc.). We are still considering this, but I’m not sure this will work; I may just continue to pursue the PhD that I’ve already been accepted to with South African Theological Seminary (even with that option though I need $2700 to get the program started, and for some reason even that amount of money isn’t falling out of the heavens like I’d hoped 😉 ).
Thanks for the feedback, Brian 🙂 .
Bobby, I was working 12-hour shifts 7 days a week for over a month. I’m still here, but just tired. Now my schedule is more normalized, but am involved in a start-up church and am taking a class at the local jc.
I thought of another thing. Many of the thinkers I have had around me over the years do much of their thinking about what has already been proposed or thought. Not as much original stuff as you would expect from “thinkers.”
Steve,
Great to hear that you have work; I am glad your schedule has settled down! I am working a new job that has me working 12.5hr shifts; although I don’t work 7 days a week (I am still looking for other work though). Sounds like things are turning around for you; praise the Lord!
On the “thinkers,” yeah, I see what you mean on the “original” front. I think many church folk need to be exposed to constructive theological ideas, and made to realize that Christian thought involves dynamic thinking because we serve a dynamic God (versus a static entity that classical theism flows from, and which most, I would assert, think from in re. to their theological thinking).
Bobby,
Love your rants, even when they sting! 😉
A few thoughts on this:
1) You underestimate your value (or, God’s usage of you) within a congregation. I know it may not seem like it sometimes, but there are people who are blessed, challenged, and brought to growth by “deeper thinkers” in a given congregation. Most of that “blessing” seems to take place outside of the Sunday worship setting though, in one-on-one or smaller group dynamics. As one called to pastor, I can tell you that I GREATLY value your presence and participation in our congregation. On one hand, your depth of theological understanding, insight, and history is something that I learn and glean from in our times together. It’s like a drink of cool water on a hot El Salvador day 😉 to me when I get to talk to you about things that you make me think hard on! On another hand, I’ve recently sent people your direction (i.e. “you need to try to spend some time with this brother”) because they’re longing for just what you’re talking about – a “deeper than norm” approach to living out their faith.
2) The place for theological thinkers to be is where they’re needed most – i.e. the evangelical church! Granted, they won’t always be accepted or welcomed by all – and they may want to run from some – but we surely do need them!
3) I know this is a (your) rant, and rants serve a certain purpose 😉 but could you offer up some thoughts (I believe you began to do this a few months back on another post) on how you would see yourself (and other theologians) in proctical ministry in a “general” evangelical congregation. Again, as a pastor, I would love to see growth in this area in our church, but freely admit that I don’t necessarily know how to best employ someone (like yourself) into ministry where you could be both blessed and a blessing. I’d love to hear where you would see yourself (and other thinkers/doers) as being most fruitful.
Grace and peace,
Daniel
Hey Pastor,
This post was not intended to target CC Vancouver, but to reflect/rant on something that I have observed in Evangelicalism over the years (personally). This covers ground within Calvary Chapel, Baptist, and EV Free; all denominations I have been apart of over my life (mostly Baptist and EV Free). But my rant is definitely not limited to these denominations; I think this covers, in general ways, all of American Evangelicalism to one degree or the other.
I hope your time in El Salvador has been good thus far! 🙂 I’m glad you have been edified from our meetings; I know I have 🙂 ! I would love to hook up with that brother you had mentioned to me, and others too! I appreciate your encouragement, Daniel; I think some of my angst simply comes from my continued unbelief that folks become satisfied with where they are at. I don’t see, in general, a zeal for the things of the Lord, or a desire to talk deeper about things (even at Calvary Chapel, in general). I simply don’t understand, and won’t accept this approach to Christianity. I want to see people thriving and cultivating all that they have in Christ. And I think facilitating discussions that are intentionally shaped by the premise that we are going to talk deeper about theology (which could simply entail question times, like on particular topics — like: eschatology, biblical interpretation, the Trinity, the atonement, the person of Christ etc.; also, ethics, evangelism, and a host of other pertinent things). I think home groups are great, and a needed time of fellowship; but what I am thinking about entails more intentionality pace some of the things I just referenced. I think these kinds of discussions need to be framed in a way that isn’t intimidating, but instead, inviting to folks. To whet peoples appetites to the reality that there is a rich heritage that Christ has left us in the history of the church; and that that history goes further back than the 1960’s etc 😉 .
2) I am concerned that folks don’t think of themselves as theologians; or those who are pursuing God deeply. I think all folks should be pressed to think deeper and wider about their walk with Christ; and simply about who Christ and God is. I am afraid that people think that everything is a mystery, and thus we cannot talk about Trinitarian theology in meaningful and deep ways. I want to see this stereotypical notion cast down (so to speak).
3) I think a place in the church for folks like me might be what I described above in point 1. To facilitate discussion for those who are interested. To have a question and answer period where folks could throw out whatever questions they have about whatever, theologically. I know this is something a former prof of mine would do at particular churches he was working with, and it proved to be a fruitful time. I am not thinking that I would just be the answer guy, but that there would be others in the church (elders, the pastors [you 😉 ] etc. That would be on a panel or something. I don’t know, just brainstorming. Also, I think doing Evangelism ministry, even street witnessing or something would be great for folks to get involved with. Or even having seminars on different religions, like Islam, Buddhism etc. These are all things I have been involved in, ministerially, and yet they all took place at Bible College; why not bring that kind of stuff to the church? I’ve always wondered why we have to go to Bible College to get “deeper;” why not do stuff like that right in the church?
These are the kinds of things I am thinking about, Daniel. I am just throwing stuff out there! 🙂
Thanks for listening, and responding; I appreciate that! Blessings. I hope you and Karen are having a good time in El Salvador; are you still there? I don’t even know …
I should clarify; I don’t think any of what I am saying reflects on your pastoring or preaching/teaching. Really what I am getting at, is that I continue to be amazed at the lack of depth and growth in peoples lives who have been Christians for years and years. My intent is not to bludgeon these Christ loving folk, but simply to say: “wake up, let the light of Christ shine on you!” 😉 This reality simply amazes, me, Daniel. I know we have talked about this before, and that there is a resonance between you and I on this. We have so much in Christ; why not go for it (and I mean Christian folk in general)?!!
Hey Bobby,
No need to clarify; if you’re talking about me I know you’d have already talked with me! 🙂 In truth, I’m well aware of the weakness of CC as a movement in this area. I’ve been blessed in the last few years to meet other CC pastors who are not satisfied with a lack of theological depth in their own lives, nor for their congregation, either. I think we’re changing and growing, at least individual congregations are. It’s one of the reasons that I’m glad to have you (and your family) as a part of our fellowship as I believe you’ll develop a ministry to help others grow in Christ. You’re correct, we have a similar desire for the Body of Christ on this one!
I really like some of your ideas in #3 above; thanks for putting them out there! We should get together (maybe next week?) and talk about them more in-depth. I think there would be interest (congregationally) in several of the things you listed. Let me know off-line what will work for you.
Getting late here. Karen and I have had a great time; some things challenging, but all very rewarding. We head back home tomorrow. Hope to see you Sunday!
Daniel
Good rant. Certainly there are several factors at play here. We have developed an anti-intellectual secular culture and the church has followed along.
Many evangelicals are scarred and wounded from endless doctrinal wars that never see resolution, lead to church splits and end ministries.
We have lost the value of really hard study for its own sake and have developed a largely pragmatic philosophy of education for vocational purposes. So the classically educated are not valued as much nor are the contents of classical education. So Latin, languages, philosophy, logic, literature, and a host of related subjects are not being learned by the vast majority of Americans.
We have become a culture of distraction and entertainment. Churches are suffering this problem – just look at the entertainment based, content lite youth groups so often found in evangelical churches.
Many evangelicals feel in their hearts that they want to know how to share their faith, but when push comes to shove they fall back on just loving your neighbor and the familiar saying “preach the gospel – use words if you have to”. So we witness by lifestyle not words or action. Content based evangelism then becomes less important.
Plus even though most people can’t put a name on it, relativism has deeply impacted the assumptions of this generation. Postmodern rejection of absolute truth is everywhere – even among those who can’t spell postmodern. I believe we see relativism in church too. It manifests in skepticism about the pastor’s teachings – just because he says it doesn’t mean it is really what the bible says. I have my own opinion. If we disagree for sound reasons that is one thing, but some disagree because they don’t like it and retreat to personal opinion because they prefer that to truth. This last point requires more development.
Finally, sin is blinding and we would rather not know too much lest it reveal our sins and weaknesses. Church is now about positive, best life, overcoming faith. We want the victory in Christ without the cross.
Pastor Daniel,
Good stuff! I’ll be in touch, have a safe trip home! Look forward to hearing about your trip.
Jon,
Spot on! I think all of your observations are great ones; good enough for you to put on your own blog 😉 !